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	<title>Comments on: The Standalone LMS is Dead</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.danpontefract.com/Index.php?feed=rss2&#038;p=152" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152</link>
	<description>Dan Pontefract: helping to lead the learning and enterprise 2.0 revolution</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 17:00:50 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Dan Pontefract</title>
		<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-4316</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Pontefract</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152#comment-4316</guid>
		<description>@Sloane - thanks for your comments.

@Dawn - yes indeed, saw your post and remarked &quot;Bingo!&quot;. Nice work. Thanks for the great piece - well written.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sloane &#8211; thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>@Dawn &#8211; yes indeed, saw your post and remarked &#8220;Bingo!&#8221;. Nice work. Thanks for the great piece &#8211; well written.</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn Poulos</title>
		<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-4296</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn Poulos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152#comment-4296</guid>
		<description>Dan, fantastic post and spot-on assessment. Unfortunately, it seems to be falling on deaf ears at most learning vendors. This refusal to connect with enterprise social collaboration platforms I believe will end up further margenilizing L&amp;D - you can&#039;t be a silo in a social world. I&#039;m commenting now because I had a great discussion with George Siemens about Connectivism for a Xyleme Voices podcast and this subject came up. Of course I felt compelled to blog about it and in doing so, referenced your post. Hope it adds some additional insight on the matter. http://bit.ly/9aoA2h</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, fantastic post and spot-on assessment. Unfortunately, it seems to be falling on deaf ears at most learning vendors. This refusal to connect with enterprise social collaboration platforms I believe will end up further margenilizing L&amp;D &#8211; you can&#8217;t be a silo in a social world. I&#8217;m commenting now because I had a great discussion with George Siemens about Connectivism for a Xyleme Voices podcast and this subject came up. Of course I felt compelled to blog about it and in doing so, referenced your post. Hope it adds some additional insight on the matter. <a href="http://bit.ly/9aoA2h" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/9aoA2h</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sloane</title>
		<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-809</link>
		<dc:creator>Sloane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152#comment-809</guid>
		<description>Thanks for writing this. I got on the train really late (mid 2009) and I think I have my late adoption to thank for because I benefited from the information of early adopters. I set up Moodle and after 2 months realized, &quot;This isn&#039;t going to work for what my students need.&quot; This week I announced we&#039;re abandoning a platform where students &quot;come to&quot; and instead I&#039;m starting to presentations using content to think about but showing tools I use to seed my own learning. I hope that the contents will make them think and they would get interested to produce their own learning through collaborations, SDL.

Thanks for confirming my doubts about standalone LMS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for writing this. I got on the train really late (mid 2009) and I think I have my late adoption to thank for because I benefited from the information of early adopters. I set up Moodle and after 2 months realized, &#8220;This isn&#8217;t going to work for what my students need.&#8221; This week I announced we&#8217;re abandoning a platform where students &#8220;come to&#8221; and instead I&#8217;m starting to presentations using content to think about but showing tools I use to seed my own learning. I hope that the contents will make them think and they would get interested to produce their own learning through collaborations, SDL.</p>
<p>Thanks for confirming my doubts about standalone LMS.</p>
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		<title>By: dan.pontefract</title>
		<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-805</link>
		<dc:creator>dan.pontefract</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152#comment-805</guid>
		<description>Hey Peter - great question.

SharePoint (particularly 2010) as well as many other solid collaboration systems just as Jive, Saba (if it includes Saba Social), Blogtronix, Liferay, SocialText, BrainPark, MindTouch, amongst a few others ... can provide this view into the organization, and with customization and other existing (or future) pieces federating into the platform.

SharePoint 2010 in particular has a real leg up on the new entrants in my opinion.

SharePoint itself is deployed in 55% of organizations (http://www.netjmc.net/intranet-trends/global-intranet-trends-2009-report-jmc.html) and to me, it&#039;s just easier to start with something you know and then to build off of it.

SharePoint 2010 has really closed the gap between E1.0 and E2.0, and I personally can no longer look at the platform as merely a document management system. It is much more than that, and once a company sorts out how to federate their LMS into the SharePoint 2010 (or similar) collaboration system, it will create that seamless window into the org for all things knowledge, learning, collaboration, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Peter &#8211; great question.</p>
<p>SharePoint (particularly 2010) as well as many other solid collaboration systems just as Jive, Saba (if it includes Saba Social), Blogtronix, Liferay, SocialText, BrainPark, MindTouch, amongst a few others &#8230; can provide this view into the organization, and with customization and other existing (or future) pieces federating into the platform.</p>
<p>SharePoint 2010 in particular has a real leg up on the new entrants in my opinion.</p>
<p>SharePoint itself is deployed in 55% of organizations (<a href="http://www.netjmc.net/intranet-trends/global-intranet-trends-2009-report-jmc.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.netjmc.net/intranet-trends/global-intranet-trends-2009-report-jmc.html</a>) and to me, it&#8217;s just easier to start with something you know and then to build off of it.</p>
<p>SharePoint 2010 has really closed the gap between E1.0 and E2.0, and I personally can no longer look at the platform as merely a document management system. It is much more than that, and once a company sorts out how to federate their LMS into the SharePoint 2010 (or similar) collaboration system, it will create that seamless window into the org for all things knowledge, learning, collaboration, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: dan.pontefract</title>
		<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-804</link>
		<dc:creator>dan.pontefract</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152#comment-804</guid>
		<description>Hey there Gina - thanks for the comment and question.

I believe we need to move from ROI to ROP ... return on performance. Rather than stating a company had 500,000+ formal training enrolments, and trying to sort out some ridiculous Kirkpatrick clone level 5 metric ... we need to simply ask ourselves how formal, informal and social learning (along with other knowledge and interaction pieces) play a part in the Return of Performance of an organization and individuals.

Eg. the organization&#039;s metrics could and should be but not limited to retention, attraction, time on support calls, time to gain new clients, engagement scores, company awards, etc etc etc.

Eg. the individual&#039;s metrics could and should be but not limited to personal engagement, size of colleague network, time to perform in new role/new task/new ask/new project, time to access answers, contributions back to the ecosystem, etc.

We need to establish new metrics for both the company and the individual, and they have to be based on performance, not on the antiquated link of investment to training events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there Gina &#8211; thanks for the comment and question.</p>
<p>I believe we need to move from ROI to ROP &#8230; return on performance. Rather than stating a company had 500,000+ formal training enrolments, and trying to sort out some ridiculous Kirkpatrick clone level 5 metric &#8230; we need to simply ask ourselves how formal, informal and social learning (along with other knowledge and interaction pieces) play a part in the Return of Performance of an organization and individuals.</p>
<p>Eg. the organization&#8217;s metrics could and should be but not limited to retention, attraction, time on support calls, time to gain new clients, engagement scores, company awards, etc etc etc.</p>
<p>Eg. the individual&#8217;s metrics could and should be but not limited to personal engagement, size of colleague network, time to perform in new role/new task/new ask/new project, time to access answers, contributions back to the ecosystem, etc.</p>
<p>We need to establish new metrics for both the company and the individual, and they have to be based on performance, not on the antiquated link of investment to training events.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Rawsthorne</title>
		<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-797</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Rawsthorne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152#comment-797</guid>
		<description>Most excellent post Dan!
I am curious, where do you see Sharepoint sitting within all this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most excellent post Dan!<br />
I am curious, where do you see Sharepoint sitting within all this?</p>
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		<title>By: gminks</title>
		<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-796</link>
		<dc:creator>gminks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152#comment-796</guid>
		<description>I love this: &quot;The LMS insinuates the notion that you ‘go to training’. This is asinine in today’s world.&quot; So how do move away from that if you need the LMS to prove the learning organization&#039;s ROI?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this: &#8220;The LMS insinuates the notion that you ‘go to training’. This is asinine in today’s world.&#8221; So how do move away from that if you need the LMS to prove the learning organization&#8217;s ROI?</p>
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		<title>By: dan.pontefract</title>
		<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-795</link>
		<dc:creator>dan.pontefract</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152#comment-795</guid>
		<description>Hey there Jeff, thanks for the comment and question.

Here&#039;s my take on things for you - grain of salt feedback.

I&#039;m not suggesting that the LMS is dead, rather, the stand-alone LMS is a relic. Whether you&#039;re in a private or public organization (and I&#039;ve worked in both scenarios) we need to start first with a &#039;collaboration&#039; system rather than a &#039;learning&#039; system, and build out from there.

I truly believe the LMS needs to become part of the collaboration system, because our societal norm is that &#039;you go to training&#039;.

The stand-alone LMS does nothing to help with erasing this falsehood, thus, if we were to federate the LMS into the collaboration system, you would have both in the same place, and formal, informal and social learning could reside in the same &#039;end-user&#039; system/application.

The reporting (and thus BI) would be built into the collaboration system because it will have the capability to report on formal aspects (like registrations, scores, etc.), informal aspects (like video/webinar uploads, coaching/mentoring instances, etc.) and social aspects (like colleague network numbers, comments, posts, etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there Jeff, thanks for the comment and question.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my take on things for you &#8211; grain of salt feedback.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting that the LMS is dead, rather, the stand-alone LMS is a relic. Whether you&#8217;re in a private or public organization (and I&#8217;ve worked in both scenarios) we need to start first with a &#8216;collaboration&#8217; system rather than a &#8216;learning&#8217; system, and build out from there.</p>
<p>I truly believe the LMS needs to become part of the collaboration system, because our societal norm is that &#8216;you go to training&#8217;.</p>
<p>The stand-alone LMS does nothing to help with erasing this falsehood, thus, if we were to federate the LMS into the collaboration system, you would have both in the same place, and formal, informal and social learning could reside in the same &#8216;end-user&#8217; system/application.</p>
<p>The reporting (and thus BI) would be built into the collaboration system because it will have the capability to report on formal aspects (like registrations, scores, etc.), informal aspects (like video/webinar uploads, coaching/mentoring instances, etc.) and social aspects (like colleague network numbers, comments, posts, etc.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-791</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152#comment-791</guid>
		<description>Dan, thanks for ideas you posted. In my large university, there is a huge need for &quot;formal&quot; training (typically mandated by the government through funding regulations) in such areas as biosafety training, animal handling, IT security, etc. These cases need a formal system that tracks how a person met certain learning standards (tests). I think the current LMS is perfect for these cases. Certainly ongoing informal learning will take place after the exam or certification process, and that could be done through collaborative tools. However, the process by which we measure and report staff training and compliance seems to need a more formal technology like the LMS.

How would you address this need in a collaborative platform?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, thanks for ideas you posted. In my large university, there is a huge need for &#8220;formal&#8221; training (typically mandated by the government through funding regulations) in such areas as biosafety training, animal handling, IT security, etc. These cases need a formal system that tracks how a person met certain learning standards (tests). I think the current LMS is perfect for these cases. Certainly ongoing informal learning will take place after the exam or certification process, and that could be done through collaborative tools. However, the process by which we measure and report staff training and compliance seems to need a more formal technology like the LMS.</p>
<p>How would you address this need in a collaborative platform?</p>
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		<title>By: dan.pontefract</title>
		<link>http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-787</link>
		<dc:creator>dan.pontefract</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.danpontefract.com/?p=152#comment-787</guid>
		<description>Hi Tim - thanks for your comment.

True - if you are clinging to the LMS, then SCORM Cloud (and the theory) does make sense.

I do have a premonition though, and that is the formal eLearning course is going to become extinct and that short bursts of knowledge (learning nuggets) will be the standard when delivered over the web. This is because users will want a short blast, then discussion, then opinion, then application, then evaluation, then another short blast, repeat the process.

Sitting through anything longer than 30 minutes of one-way content will no longer cut it. But, there&#039;s probably still a market for SCORM Cloud and the LMS because not everyone thinks like me yet. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tim &#8211; thanks for your comment.</p>
<p>True &#8211; if you are clinging to the LMS, then SCORM Cloud (and the theory) does make sense.</p>
<p>I do have a premonition though, and that is the formal eLearning course is going to become extinct and that short bursts of knowledge (learning nuggets) will be the standard when delivered over the web. This is because users will want a short blast, then discussion, then opinion, then application, then evaluation, then another short blast, repeat the process.</p>
<p>Sitting through anything longer than 30 minutes of one-way content will no longer cut it. But, there&#8217;s probably still a market for SCORM Cloud and the LMS because not everyone thinks like me yet. <img src='http://www.danpontefract.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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